your group got laws passed in that direction lifting the charter cap in mieshz. bliewk to you. thank you, michelle rhee. >> thank you. john: one who says she has evil is joe del grosso. at the top of the show, he was in a meeting attacking charter schools and also doesn't like for-profit competition. >> market driven education belos on wall street, not broad street. john: you got a lot of applause for that, joe, thank you for joining us. >> yes. john: bob bowdon, made a movie calmed "the cartel," saying you're a cartel like a conspiracy of people trying to keep prices up, competition out. >> no. you're wrong about that. why keep competition away? >> you said it on the clip saying if it's market driven, it's bad. >> no, i said that i don't like for-profit education. that has nothing to do with competition. if school a wants to compete with school b, there's nothing wrong with than. non-profit charters are okay and private schools are okay for a voucher according to you? non-profit is okay? >> i'm not for religious institutions involved in public education. now, if you want somet